Manchester – Social Justice? Pandemics and Reality
A discussion about why science, rational thought and understanding the Illusion of free will is vital for human survival into the 21st century - and beyond.
On Wednesday 22nd May 2024, Politics in Pubs Manchester met at the Welcome Inn, Bury Old Road, Whitefield, M45 6TA, Manchester. See here for location.
The meeting was led by David Milne, who graduated in geology as a mature student. He is an atheist and is currently vice-chair of Greater Manchester Humanists, as well as being a school speaker for humanism, which is now on the Religious Education syllabus for both primary and secondary schools.
Introduction
David began by explaining that humanism is a non-religious world view, based upon science, rational thought and evidence. Humanists believe that understanding the illusion of free will is vital for human survival into the 21st century…. and beyond.
The origins of religion
Humanists believe that there is no evidence for the existence of God and that our primitive ancestors invented stories as a means of understanding what they saw in the physical world – such as death and natural phenomena – in order to bring comfort and solace. Belief in humanism as an alternative to religious faith is now sufficiently popular for rituals such as marriage, funerals, and naming ceremonies to be conducted by humanist celebrants.
Humanism
David believes that the facility to be an intellectually satisfied atheist only came about after the publication of Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution in ‘On the Origin of Species’. David suggested that free will is an illusion which results from neural activity, knowledge, personal experience, and laws of physics.
People who do bad things are not acting upon free will, they need to be removed from society and treated to address the malfunctioning part of the brain. David believes the brain – rather than free will – makes choices for us in a purely physical way. Criminals aren’t acting on free will – if they have had a bad childhood this will have affected their brains and they can’t help it.
David cited scientific developments which have been hugely beneficial for human survival, such as the creation of the smallpox vaccine by Dr. Edward Jenner.
Social Justice
Evidence of improvements in social justice from a humanist perspective include reductions in the following: slavery, human sacrifice, despotism, blood sports, animal cruelty, foot binding, persecution of heretics, and oppression of women. Humanism is generally supportive of the right to assisted dying.
Discussion
Free will is consciousness, which is a very complicated area to explain and can’t be discounted.
Humanism feels like a religion.
Religion is useful for providing societies with a structure for morality and traditional, shared beliefs. Some aspects of ‘progress’ have left more people powerless.
Some scientific developments have taken huge risks – such as the young child used as a guinea pig for Jenner’s smallpox vaccination.
Other unproven medical technologies have been applied in the name of progress and caused great harm. This has sometimes involved misinformation and falsehoods from formerly trusted sources.
Lobbyists often exert undue influence. Scientific principles, such as randomised control testing, are not always applied.
What is social justice?
Humans have become the dominant species and life has progressed hugely in the last 50 years. With the development of AI, could we be on the cusp of witnessing creation of a new dominant ‘species’?
How is social justice affected by whether individuals have money or not? If humanism believes in chance rather than free will, money seems to create significant inequality of chance.
What do humanists believe happens when you die?
Science hasn’t buried God – there are too many things that science can’t explain, such as the origin of life. Why is it important to eliminate the notion of free will?
The quest for the truth has been corrupted by money and power. Many no longer have faith or trust in science or people in authority. Scientists are often pursuing financial gain. People who question ‘The Science’ are condemned as ‘science deniers’.
Science is never ‘settled’. The beauty of the Western world is that it is based upon the Christian faith – if we stop believing in God, the beauty disappears.
The scientific method has been abused, driven by money. Physics has backed itself into a corner with String Theory and climate science. It is the scientific method which enables – or prevents – faith in scientific discoveries.
What is the main difference between atheists and humanists?
David’s responses:
Humanism doesn’t take a fixed position and is always prepared to consider new evidence.
Humanists don’t have faith like religious believers do, they scientifically observe progress in human survival and social justice.
Scientists sometimes make mistakes but not deliberately. It is a constant struggle to find the truth.
Social justice is about discovering how the universe works in order to make opportunities for progress.
Humanism is a general pathway towards finding the truth. Religious faith presents 3000 different gods – which religion is right? Organised religion is the greatest separatist movement.
There is no evidence that anything happens when a human dies.
Free will is an illusion because we are controlled by our brains and brains learn from experience.
We should accept authority from people like leading medical figures at face value.
The scientific method is very important. Mistakes are made by the people involved, not the method.
The main difference between atheists and humanists is that no-one can be 100% certain that there are no gods. Humanists would say that there is no evidence of a god yet.
Thank you so much, David, for introducing humanism to Politics in Pubs Manchester, and leading a vigorous discussion. As always, a big thank you to our lovely hosts at The Welcome Inn. Cheers all!
Find out more about the Humanist Society:
Forthcoming Events
Manchester – Cancelling Cancel Culture, Sunday 16th June 2024 2pm
Cancelling Cancel Culture is delighted to welcome Nick Buckley who will be discussing ‘From Mayor to MP: Politics and the Disenfranchised’. Please join us at the Briton’s Protection, Manchester from 2pm.
https://www.meetup.com/cancelling-cancel-culture-meetup/events/301381070/
Manchester – Politics in Pubs, Wednesday 26th June 2024 7.30pm
Politics in Pubs welcomes former oil and gas industry professional David Lewis, to discuss ‘Delivering Net Zero: Powering up the Transition to Greener Energy’. David will review the technology initiatives required to “Power Up” the Green Economy and ask the question, “is the goal of reaching “Net Zero” emissions by 2050 achievable?” Please join us at The Welcome Inn, Bury Old Road, Whitefield, Manchester M45 6TA from 7.30pm. See here for location.
Manchester – Comedy Unleashed, Thursday 6th June 2024 7pm
In its first ever Manchester gig, Comedy Unleashed presents a relaxed evening of free-thinking comedy with comedians who don’t self-censor. With: Andrew Doyle, Josh Howie, Elaine Miller, and Francis Foster. Doors open 6pm. Venue: Impossible, 36 Peter Street, Manchester M2 5QR. Tickets available on the link below:
https://comedyunleashed.co.uk/manchester-gigs/
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