Sheffield – What it Means to be a Patriot

We met at The Red Lion in Sheffield on Thursday 5th September 2024 to discuss “What it Means to be a Patriot” with an introduction by Ed, one of our regular members.

In our previous conversations down the pub, the ideas of societal atomisation, community, our country, patriotism and nationalism have all been mentioned.

Albeit in the limited time of our meetings I got the sense that these issues were regarded as important and valuable and yet complex.

I personally have been thinking about and wrestling with the concept of patriotism. For example: in times gone by was patriotism a given, was it useful (and for whom) and is it still relevant to this day and age?

I thought it be a good idea to listen to other people’s views on patriotism so that I could make my own less vague and more all rounded / less partisan, hence this Sheffield PiPs topic suggestion.

What was discussed

The following may go some way to cover the points raised in the introduction and during the discussion. Apologies are made for any omissions which come about simply through poor recall on behalf of the author.

We started with a “fun fact”: the term Patriotism is rooted in the American and French revolutions which were fought to achieve sovereignty of their people over their monarchies.

Patriotism and Nationalism are terms often conflated.

However patriotism is a shared meaning to being British, who we are, how we arose and what we represent. In part it is an emotive idea (i.e. an emotional tie to the country).

It is said that Nationalism has more of an element of power relations about it. That is, to involve the assertion of the interests of one’s own country without regard of those of other nations.

Toward the end of August 2024, the Labour Party’s leader visited Germany and France and made great show of wanting to take the “fight to the far right and nationalism”. He regards it as important to defeat “the snake oil of populism and nationalism”.

Populism is difficult to define and it is usually done so in a negative sense by it’s opponents (vis a vis the globalists vs. the populists). However, populism can be said to contain a patriotic core.

That is, within populism there is a love / respect / appreciation and kinship within and for our “common place”: our country. Populism recognises our commonality and how this imprints on us our shared citizenship.

This citizenship is, in the first instance, by accident of birth; we are born and grow up in our country. In doing so, in spite of our personal differences, we share what has occurred before our time and what exists in the present to make our lives what they are. We are recipients of an inheritance made up of historical achievements, rights, laws, institutions, structures, kinships and so on. This inheritance also places duties and responsibilities upon us.

It would seem that populism, patriotism and citizenship are under attack from governmental championing of, in particular, antidemocratic and globalist movements. These modern critiques are therefore corrosive and not cohesive. We need display self confidence, to know what are our loyalties and by reaffirming our common values.

So, in no particular order, what defines a populist or a patriot is whether they adhere to:

• sovereignty;
• democracy;
• citizenship;
• fairness;
• justice;
• the rule of law;
• free speech;
• civil liberties and freedom;
• personal responsibility;
• tolerance;
• women’s rights;
• duty;
• service;
• altruism;
• solidarity;
• critical thought;
• building for / educating future generations.

Proceeding on from the introduction a number of issues were raised and discussed.

It was asked whether the suggested list of patriotic values were arranged in order of importance. The answer to that was no and the point was made that in such a ranking the uppermost value should be Freedom of Speech because all other rights and freedoms can not come about without it. Serious concerns about related governmental proposals were voiced with an air of alarm and a tinge of despondency.

“Citizenship by accident of birth” was suggested to be ameliorated with respect to the existence of citizens who were not born in the country.

The protection of the rights of citizens with regard to sovereignty and the maintenance of national borders was raised in the light of current illegal migration issues (N.B. legal migration was not discussed). The difference between refugees and economic migrants and the application of the rule of law and order with respect to entry was touched upon.

Worries concerning multiculturalism (are all cultures equivalent or equal?) were voiced. The issues of integration linked to the effective segregation or ghettoisation of an increasing influx of immigrants by governmental and local authorities was a concern in the light of the preservation of patriotic values. In contrast a multiethnic ethos was not queried. On the optimistic side, progress in the awareness of the need to tackle prejudice within the country was noted. Albeit in some instances progress could be made more quickly, the movement of travel was in the right direction.

In the light of possible sectarianism the idea of the community and of community leadership was mentioned. Often leadership of groups etc. was viewed to be self serving and self selecting. Frequently so called leaders, allies and activists disrupt the lives of “the membership” by thrusting them into the spotlight of their own political agendas whereas many just want to go about their lives in peace, as it were.

The function of charity was raised in that it was proposed that whereas “charity begins at home” (is this an expression of charity or is it solidarity?), charity represents a failure on behalf of society in that some citizens fall by the wayside, as it were.

Come and see us at the Battle of Ideas

We are delighted once again to have a stall at the Battle of Ideas festival in London on Saturday 19 & Sunday 20 October at Church House, Westminster. Find out more hereincluding discounted tickets for members.

We are growing!

We are expanding our activities via regional Politics in Pubs groups and have created a map where you can search for a group near you. Our latest group in Ilkley is actively looking for new members and if you live in the area please contact them via email.

Don't worry if you can't find anything nearby as you can start your own group. If you would like to be put in touch with other people interested in talking about politics, please reply to this email letting us know your location and we'll help to get the conversation started.

We have also started to grow our network with other free speech groups who have a similar interest in open discussion and debate. If you have such a group and want to appear on our map please get in touch.