We were very pleased to interview Mike Swadling recently. Mike runs one of our partner free speech groups – Croydon Constitutionalists. In this interview he provides some real insight into the challenges of running a free speech group:

Despite the challenges I’ve mentioned I would say it’s worth it.  We have the privilege of living in a functioning liberal democracy.  A privilege many still don’t have, and that hasn’t existed for most of history.  If you can, do your bit to maintain it.  It’s a lot of fun and you get to meet a lot of interesting people who you wouldn’t normally get to speak with.

They hold monthly drinks at The George in Croydon, every third Wednesday of the month. We highly recommend them.

Can you tell us a bit about what inspired you to start the Croydon Constitutionalists?

Anyone who has spent time in and campaigning for a political party will know how much people can obsess over committee positions, and how much effort is focused on fund raising.  Dan and I who set-up the group, ran (with a couple of others, and many campaigners) Croydon Vote Leave campaign during the referendum.  We realised how much more we enjoyed campaigning for ideas than for a party.  We needed a vehicle for this, and set-up the Croydon Constitutionalists to be a group that promoted a broad set of classical liberal ideas.

There are a lot of free to attend political events, speeches, and gatherings that happen in and around Westminster.  We wanted to bring these sorts of events to Croydon.  Whilst Croydon town centre may only be 10 miles from Westminster, both culturally and by late night public transport it can feel a lot further.  We wanted to localise these events with guests from think tanks, politicians, and people generally able to help us promote individual freedom.

What are the main aims and principles of the group?

When we set-up we laid out 5 simple statements of what we were in favour of:

• Brexit
• Low Taxes
• Free Speech
• Free Markets
• Rational science not climate alarmism

At various times since we set-up in 2018, Brexit has felt more and less relevant.  When we started, saying we were not fully brought into global warming alarmism, had far less resonance with both political campaigners and the public than it does today.

In 2018 we wrote out a few questions for people to ask themselves, sadly with record high taxes, and continued restrictions from government these seem even more relevant today.

• Should another person have the right to tell you how to live your life?
• Who’s in charge the people or the government?
• Is working for the tax man different from working for an owner?
• If I take your possessions, it’s theft.  Is it any more acceptable if I hold a vote to take your possessions first?
• How can it be free speech if I can’t talk for fear of upsetting someone?

I might add another couple of questions today for people to ask themselves:

• Do we provide the right framework of incentives to encourage people to work hard and support themselves and their families?
• Do you feel our political class is working in your best interests, and if not, do you want them to have more or less influence over what you are allowed to say and do?

What kind of events or initiatives have you organised since starting the group?

Whilst we mentioned being a pro-Brexit group, we had hoped to leave that issue largely behind us as we started setting up our website, social media presence, and got leaflets printed.  Unfortunately, Theresa May had different ideas as she went about betraying our democracy and tried to ensure we stayed de facto members of the EU.  This meant until Boris won in December 2019, much of our time was focused on initiatives for Brexit or against MPs who were actively trying to deny 17.4 million voters and end democracy in our country.

On a more positive note, this did lead to us holding events with the ‘Leavers of London’ group set-up by Lucy Harris.  That group went on to become ‘Leavers of Britain’, and we held ‘Leavers of Croydon’ events.  We also held a few larger set piece events with David Kurten (former London GLA member), Chris Philp (Croydon South MP and now Shadow Home Secretary), among our many guests.

Croydon Council has had severe financial problems and declared de facto bankruptcy.  We’ve spent a lot of time working with the TaxPayers’ Alliance on street stalls, with articles, and evening events discussing the council’s failings and other issues.  Despite our borough’s poor financial plight, I am still able to regularly produce articles highlighting areas they are pouring our money away on causes that have nothing to do with benefiting the people of Croydon.

Just before lockdown we started a podcast which proved a great way to speak to people when we were all shut in, and allowed us to talk with people who live further afield.  This period also saw us work with Dick Delingpole’s Libertarian #ThirdWednesday drinks group and led us to holding drinks every month on the Third Wednesday.

We’ve held evenings holding discussions on national service, government spending, hearing from many local political candidates, and representatives from the Global Warming Policy Forum, Free Speech Union, Academics for Academic Freedom, and The Freedom Association, among others.

Why do you think free speech needs defending in the UK today?

I remember at school in the 80’s I and others would often point out ‘I can say what I like, I live in a free country’.  The idea that we lived in the free world, as opposed to the communist unfree world behind the iron curtain was very much embedded in our identity and in the language we used.

I can’t believe anyone is expressing that opinion anymore in our country.  Free speech is the whole 9 yards of freedom. It’s what allows innovators to come up with ideas that drive our economy.  It’s what allows for scientific innovation.  It’s what allows people to campaign to break free of societal or government intolerance to their lifestyle choices or immutable characteristics.  It’s what allows you to bring up your children, exposing them to the ideas you want.  Encapsulated in the idea of free speech is the right to not have to listen to others, and in that it’s what keeps us free of the indoctrination forced on so many by government, and so prevalent in this country during lockdown.  Free speech is also what allows us to keep our democracy alive, as it’s what allows us to campaign to ‘kick the buggers out’ when those in government go too far.

Free speech is fundamentally the freedom to say something that offends someone, can be unpopular, and can often be very unpleasant.  It’s the freedom for those with unorthodox views to express themselves as much as those in the mainstream.  With the two-tier justice system we have today we know these freedoms are under great threat in the UK.

How do you approach political diversity within your events and website content?

As a group we are non-partisan, but we are not impartial, we unashamedly promote individual liberty.  This however still allows for a wide range of ideas and political leanings to be voiced through our group.  For instance, we have worked extensively with both the Libertarian Party and the SDP, neither of whom would share many economic policies.

A lot is about practicalities; we are reliant on people wanting to help us out by writing an article or appearing at an event.  Often our overwhelming criteria of selecting content or speakers, is based on simply them being willing to turn up.

One part of our website content I’ve most enjoyed pulling together are various articles from international political activists and self-created content following trips away.  Recently we had an interview with the Libertarian Party of India, and a favourite of mine was an interview with a Georgian MP.

We have had attendees from both local Labour and Conservative parties (among others) at our events and often attracted a fair number of younger attendees.  We want people to come along and speak in a friendly fair manner and share ideas.  I think it’s also important we don’t just talk politics, and sometimes are just normal people chatting away in a pub.

What challenges have you encountered in running a free speech group in a local community setting?

About 30 years ago I felt every pub in Croydon, had a private room you could hire.  Unfortunately, since then many of those pubs have closed, and those still open have renovated or simply stopped hiring out rooms.

Finding a venue that is still open, and accessible by a range of public transport becomes the next challenge.  As is finding a venue available on the night you want, and at the price (ideally free) you want to pay.

Some venues don’t want to hold political events, and we have had problems with local anti-free speech advocates challenging venues for hosting a group that has ‘controversially; interviewed candidates from the party leading all polling in the UK (Reform).

However, I would say one of our biggest challenges has come post lockdown where after an initial surge in attendees we have seen people less likely to turn up to political meetings with local activists, when there are now many meetings organised where they can interact with national figures via Zoom.

At the moment we are holding monthly drinks at The George in Croydon, every third Wednesday of the month.  We have local elections in Croydon next May and many of our attendees focus (and much of mine) will be on them.  After that I suspect we will go back to organising bigger events.

Have there been moments where you’ve had to make difficult decisions about speakers, topics, or tone?

Really not at all.  We invite people to speak and never been tempted to invite anyone whose topics or tone cause us any issues.  We’ve had some speak in ways we don’t personally agree with, but that’s what gives us debate.

Joe Rogan has a line about “We lost a lot of people during covid …and most of them are still alive.”  It’s fair to say over the years we have moved apart from some groups who we used to more regularly invite, although often this is because we think they have nothing new to say.

We have had a few and only a few challenges with audience members who have felt they would like to prove a point, or ‘be clever’ (these are public meetings with alcohol), but calling them out for it has resolved any issues.

What advice would you give to others thinking of setting up a group focused on free speech or civic discussion?

The only advice I would have is keep going, we’ve been running our group for 7 years, and been doing many of the same things since the start of the referendum campaign.  We’ve adapted to circumstances over that time, and our online presence initially intended to just promote our events is now the bigger part of what we have.  Also pairing up and working with groups like Politics in Pubs has helped extend our reach.

Despite the challenges I’ve mentioned I would say it’s worth it.  We have the privilege of living in a functioning liberal democracy.  A privilege many still don’t have, and that hasn’t existed for most of history.  If you can, do your bit to maintain it.  It’s a lot of fun and you get to meet a lot of interesting people who you wouldn’t normally get to speak with.